I've been meaning to ask about this. Any feedback on this alternate insurance provider: www.americanfireartists.com ? They've been offering insurance since March.
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Philadelphia
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 6:55 PMAfter viewing their safety requirements, I wouldn't personally go with them. A lot of their requirements are vague which leaves room for interpretation, thus leaving room for me to be denied coverage if an accident happens. -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:55 PMI agree. And it's not just them. I've been looking at the various regulations posted around regarding safety (especially in Cali.), and they seem so arbitrary and vague. And there is no consistency from one to another (e.g., distances ranging from 5 to 20 feet between performer and audience), or regard for the various types of tools (e.g., palms vs. meteors). I can see this becoming a problem if a group of performers at an event (like with PEX parties) were all on different policies that had widely varying requirements. But would it be reasonable for a venue to require a specific insurance in order not to deal with these issues? And what about the potential for kickbacks from the insurance co. to the venue for making the requirement? -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:00 PMP.S., BTW, I'm not bringing this up in relation to us (Philly Fire Arts), though I think it's important for us to consider. This relates to something happening with a gig in Atlantic City. -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 3:51 AMIs a venue you're working with requiring a certain company's fire insurance?
Maybe you're referring to Belly Dancing?
In my experience, most places don't even know about fire insurance, let alone who provides it. I doubt fire entertainers will have much issue with this anytime soon. If there was an issue, I'd think they'd prefer COTUS over any newcomer's insurance. -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 4:47 AMI'm working on a bellydance fire fan routine with another dancer for a House of Blues event later this summer, and I (idiot that I am) used insurance and stuff on NAFAA safety as a selling tool to the booking agent (the booking agent was scared of getting involved with fire acts, and because of a contract I have to use this booking agent for the gig). The agent went to the NAFAA website and just assumed we had the fire artists insurance. Jen, the other dancer, doesn't have insurance yet and was considering going with them. I'm afraid that could cause problems. I haven't replied to the agent because I want to gather information first. Everything is now kind of up in the air. -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 6:20 AMinteresting...the fire artists' insurance was under a bit of discussion under the professional fire arts tribe (here's the link to thread tribes.tribe.net/professio...382526d34) and from what i last read of it, they seemed to be having a bit of trouble getting it started, but now checking out their website it looks like they got their flaming balls rollin'.
From what I read through their rep's postings, one thing that they are banking on is NOT getting claims, although ironically one of their selling features is you can make multiple claims throughout the billing year.
I see definite benefits for insurance specifically written for fire however am also unsure about their "safety guidelines" It seems like they have a direct interest in fire and truly believe fire artist's insurance is a growing industry otherwise they wouldn't have started the business. But for a company dedicate to the one media, I would also expected to see their guidelines to be further developed and more specified regulations regarding indoor/outdoor environments, fuel type, tools vs. experimental tools, specifics on audience interactions, wardrobe (make-up. wigs and fake eyelashes included) and a whole list that's not off the top of my head. S far it seems that they accept everyone who gives them money (which is the same for clowns of us) but I also think a distinction of "professional and safety standards" can also be helpful on their end to minimize future claims generated from performers who don't have the experience of a flaming fuel bucket.
I think the best idea would also include more pyrotechnics and fire arts instillations... -
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Re: Insurance Alternative to Clowns of US
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 10:59 AMThanks for posting the link, Lauren. I think it's good that there is more than one company to choose from, but I think their required safety regulations are a bad idea. First, where are they coming up with their requirements? Why 15 feet between audience and performer? I think a safe distance depends a lot on the fire tool/prop you are using. For example, palms and torches are safe at a very close distance of a couple of feet. The 15 feet limit would prevent me from doing fire in any restaurants and clubs, which is where I do a lot of my work. And where do you draw the line with their clothing requirements? Would a sequined belt worn over suede pants jeopardize a claim?
Since Philly Fire Arts requires insurance to participate in some gigs, my instinct would be to make clowns the required insurance so everyone is on the same page. But would that be fair to make such a requirement? I'm bringing all of this up now, because I could see where it might become an issue for a future event. Especially with the price difference between the two (I think clown's is $50 more). What if someone doesn't know the issues and buys fire artists first? If we explore it all now, we might avoid some headache down the road.
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